The latest genealogists most of the consider it tall you to definitely Nicholas’ wife Clementia are incorporated right here as the, significantly less than typical activities, she’d never be mentioned. Whenever Susanna during the specific later big date received over to a different protector, the latest partner of the protector was not said.
This would signify King John spent sometime here and you may the possibility of a keen amorous liaison that have Clementia can be obtained
Here are some listed here is a theory state-of-the-art of the certain eminent genealogists, however it is reasonable to state that the fresh new results is hotly competitive!
So it concept leads to a great and you may interested ‘twist’ on the tale away from Joanna, that may notice admirers from HBD!
At first glance, there would be nothing to highly recommend one connection between the hostage, Susanna away from Wales and you will Clementia, partner out-of Nicholas de- Verdun. However, the feel of some genealogists that have foreign hostages, instance youngsters, might have been that they was in fact usually set having friends, or no was indeed readily available.
Jumping toward 1236, there’s an admission regarding Tewkesbury annals and this relates to Joanna’s mom because the “Queen Clemencie!” It reads simply:
Now, we know that the mother out-of Joanna is titled Clementia (Clemence?
In such a case the newest monk is actually evidently indulging into the gothic legalism. Prior to their own death, Joanna ended up being legitimised by Pope. Based on you to legitimisation, this new Tewksbury monk evidently got they up on himself to raise Joanna’s mom toward updates of King, as if their particular mommy had been Queen John’s partner! It is a fact not, one Queen John and you can Clementia was basically never ever hitched. By the referring to Joanna’s mom https://brightwomen.net/no/singaporeiske-kvinner/ because the “Queen” Clementia, brand new monk just who registered Joanna’s death was proving his significant regard having Joanna, although not trying to replace the real affairs.
Are you aware that term out of Clementia de- Verdun, Paget suggests that she was this new daughter off Roger de- Dauntsey, off Wiltshire. That genealogist considers they tall you to Clementia hailed out-of Wiltshire due to the fact he has noticed that King John had an effective connection to one condition, they as the house out of their most trusted allies, the brand new Longespee, ilies and you can Geoffrey Fitz Peter.
Genealogists have found the term ‘Clementia’ is actually really unusual among English noblewomen of this months. In one desk off ladies’ names which was accumulated, there have been simply several incidents of the identity “Clementia” off a maximum of 1407 women in the new attempt! The point that people called Clementia might be on the Susanna is known as extreme.
So! Evidence try effective, yet not conclusive, one inside 1228, Susanna, since good hostage, received out over the newest care of her maternal granny, now spouse from Nicholas de- Verdun!!
The latest Scottish genealogists of one’s MacDuffs’ hold that Susanna ferch Llywelyn came into this world 1214 inside Gwynnedd, Wales and died c. 1259 into the Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She partnered Malcolm MacDuff, Earl off Fife from inside the 1230 and had one or two children: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl away from Fife, produced 1245, passed away 1270 and you can MacDuff MacDuff produced 1247.
Obviously, there are avoid arguments to any or all so it supposition! King John got of a lot mistresses and possibly up to 7 illegitimate pupils. Mom regarding Joanna would have been created circa 1172 and you may marriageable circa 1184. Joanna herself was born circa 1191 (14 yrs old during their matrimony to help you Llywelyn). Rohese, the latest identified legitimate child regarding Nicholas de- Verdun and his awesome partner Clementia was created circa 1210-1213. If the Clementia are mom of Joanna, she’d are in their particular late 30’s, very early 40’s when giving birth in order to Rohese! Not impossible, particular say, but not very likely.